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Category
Antitheocra Town Hall

Posts
169

Created
03.10.2022

Author
space_pirate666

BabyChey_xx

Level 42
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09.01.2023 08:37:24
BabyChey_xx

Hey friends! This might be a silly question but we won't be discussing the entire book on day one, right? I'm about halfway through so I'm good for that but I'm hoping to crank out the latter half in the next couple of days. Thanks!

09.01.2023 08:37:24

Do what will bring you joy

Blecky89

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09.01.2023 08:44:40
Blecky89

I'm on chapter 3 (face palming). Had a cold plus 3 sick kids don't leave much free time to read. Since I read in English it goes also slower.

09.01.2023 08:44:40

BabyChey_xx

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09.01.2023 08:54:34
BabyChey_xx

Darn Blecky, that sounds tough. Hope you and your family feel better soon!

What helps me sometimes is playing the audiobook (found on youtube) along with me while I read along with my physical book. It helps me focus and honestly enhances the experience since the language is old-timey British English the voice actor helps me get immersed in the story. But mostly I do it because it helps me keep a good pace if I want to get a certain amount of pages done in an amount of time - but mostly mostly because I get distracted easily it helps me stay focused!

09.01.2023 08:54:34

Do what will bring you joy

Melpomene

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09.01.2023 09:17:20
Melpomene

I also did this with the audiobook. It was very effective!

Well, since more than one of you are still in the process, we could always divide the book into parts and discuss it some at a time, like Kole(kole etc) suggested in a pm to me. It is a little bit difficult to estimate what a proper reading time might be so let's see how we can make this work...

Tell you what, maybe could concentrate on the first quarter (chapters 1-5)? If someone wants to chime in on the book in general too, they can, but maybe they could add spoiler warning then?

09.01.2023 09:17:20

Furiously drawing new designs

StrangeKindOfWoman

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09.01.2023 13:55:52
StrangeKindOfWoman

I planned on finishing the book over the weekend, but I got absolutely shitfaced at a friend's birthday party and wasn't able to finish it in time. I will absolutely finish it today though.
I don't remember what happened specifically in the first chapters, so let me just say for now I really liked the writing in a way that I sometimes wished I could talk like that but at the same time I often felt not smart enough to understand what's going on :D

09.01.2023 13:55:52

I am always stressed out by not knowing how to act like a normal person

Melpomene

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09.01.2023 15:46:03
Melpomene

I agree totally. The writing was very pretty but sometimes parts were a little difficult to get through. Especially in the descriptions of places and time passing I'd sometimes start glossing over details a little (with chapter 11 especially). The dialogue was a lot easier to follow and perhaps more interesting in general too. For me anyway. I enjoyed people's witty and snarky remarks. I enjoyed reading anything said by Henry despite how awful he was being (Guess that's a good indicator about his charming personality). Even the occasional monologues they'd sometimes go on didn't bother me that much even if they can be pretty unnatural

Chapters 1-5 very bare bones summary:
Basil introduces us to Dorian, Henry gets interested in Dorian, we meet Dorian. Henry and Dorian speak while Basil finishes the portrait. Henry discusses Dorian's heritage with his uncle. (Parents married against grandpa Kelso's wishes, dad died in a shady duel, mom dies also.) At Basil's aunt Augusta's philanthropy-related dinner, Dorian gets utterly spellbound by Henry's philosophical ideas. Over the next month, the two grow closer. One night Dorian meets Henry's wife at his house, where Dorian is to confess his attraction to Sibyl and invite his friends to see her act. Sibyl and her mother discuss Sibyl's romance with her "Prince Charming". Later Sibyl's brother James confronts their mother about whether she and their father were married or not. He also expresses distrust towards Sibyl's love and vows to kill him if he harms her.

Some starting points I stole from the internet that might generate discussion if you want (or talk about whatever that comes to mind):
- What role does art play in The Picture of Dorian Gray? What are each of the three main characters' attitudes towards art? How do they think art functions in society?
- In what way does Lord Henry affect Dorian's character? Why does Lord Henry choose Dorian as his disciple? And what impels Dorian to follow his guidance? What is it that Dorian fears?
- What is the relationship between Basil and Dorian...from beginning to end?
- In the preface (be sure to read this), Wilde writes that "there is no such thing as a moral or immoral book." In other words, art has no effect, other than aesthetic, on individuals or society. Do you agree with Wilde's premise? Does this novel adhere to his statement?

09.01.2023 15:46:03

Furiously drawing new designs

space_pirate666

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09.01.2023 17:44:15
space_pirate666

In the preface (be sure to read this), Wilde writes that "there is no such thing as a moral or immoral book." In other words, art has no effect, other than aesthetic, on individuals or society. Do you agree with Wilde's premise? Does this novel adhere to his statement?

^
I think the premise that Oscar Wilde has intended to put within his book, the interpretation of this idea, can be looked at quite differently depending on the time we live in. In other words I think for this book in this stance specifically the book was rather moral basically “you get what you pay for”; though I think that people in the 1800s could have had a different /opposing view on this subject

09.01.2023 17:44:15

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StrangeKindOfWoman

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09.01.2023 19:31:05
StrangeKindOfWoman

I saw the preface as Wilde's way of defending himself from critics. As far as I know before the book was published there were excerpts published in a newspaper. Maybe that was his response to the critical reception. I don't know how it was originally received though.
Another interpretation could be how the french book affected Dorian. Since he read it he went into a complete moral demise and later told Henry not to show that book to any other person.
I kind of like the "Art for art's sake" way of thinking.

A few other thoughts: I've read that Oscar Wilde said he sees himself as Basil, the world sees him as Lord Henry and he wants to be like Dorian (in another time). And I absolutely pictured Lord Henry as Oscar Wilde's self-insert character. And that he thought of Dorian as an empty shell for Lord Henry to fill with his ideas.
Now, this could get a little weird, but in the beginning I thought of Dorian as of Joe Black from the movie "Meet Joe Black" with Brad Pitt. It seemed like he came out of nowhere and had no real understanding of how the world works and that had to be filled by the ideologies of another person, meaning mainly Henry. And because of that I thought Dorian might be the personification of death or the devil who wanted to visit late 19th century London. Yeah, I said it was getting weird ^^'

And I really despised chapter 11 with a burning passion! I actually skipped quite a few paragraphes of that chapter, it was just listing random things endlessly.
That being said, what I enjoyed reading the most were the dialogues.

09.01.2023 19:31:05

I am always stressed out by not knowing how to act like a normal person

BabyChey_xx

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10.01.2023 07:22:08
BabyChey_xx

You guys really have some great analyses so far :D *clapping emoji* lol

I'm not great with organizing my thoughts or following prompts so I'm just gonna share some notes and quotes and things I want to share up to chapter 5:

- Basil is so obsessed with Dorian as Lord Henry too becomes - why? I wanna know how gorgeous is he actually that everyone must comment on it all the time? Perhaps setting up that his youth and beauty are close to godliness is to make his decline more impactful?
- They're all so complimentary and flirty with each other is this like some not-so-sneaky coded closeted gay yearning? lmfaoo
- Youth and Beauty = Power and Influence. So when Lord Henry tells Dorian that his beauty is fleeting, he's also saying that when he loses these traits his worth as a person depreciates (ex. "youth is the only thing worth having".)
- Everyone is such drama queens and so nosy I love it but also these people are actually really shitty
- Henry = egotistical massive douchey misogynist but very quotable >:/
- Dorian making antisemitic comments multiple times?? Unnecessary.
- "I am a little jealous of the picture for being a whole month younger than I am" (Dorian, pg 41) - first mention and foreshadowing of a comparable visible aging in the painting and Dorian
- I like that Sibyl's family are protective of her and watch over her because I feel like she definitely will need it like I just feel like she's definitely gonna get wrapped up in some shit she didn't sign up for
- The tone really feels like okay nothing bad has happened yet, but there's an uneasy feeling like bad things are gonna start happening very soon sneaking up on these characters that no one in the story can see but the reader can

Fav quotes:
- "It is the faithless who know love's tragedies"
- "Nothing can cure the soul like the senses, just as nothing can cure the senses like the soul."
- "She behaves as if she was beautiful. Most American women do. It is the secret to their charm." period!!
- "Philanthropic people lose all sense of humanity. It is their distinguishing characteristic." lmfaooo tru
- "Nowadays people know the price of everything, and the value of nothing".
- "All that it really demonstrated was that our future would be the same as our past and that the sin we had done once, and with loathing, we would do many times, and with joy."

That's it lol I do really like it so far I missed reading lit for fun :')

10.01.2023 07:22:08

Do what will bring you joy

StrangeKindOfWoman

Level 94
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10.01.2023 09:17:47
StrangeKindOfWoman

- They're all so complimentary and flirty with each other is this like some not-so-sneaky coded closeted gay yearning?
That's what I thought as well :D Oscar Wilde was homosexual, so I think that's fair to assume.

- Henry = egotistical massive douchey misogynist but very quotable >:/
I was never quite sure, if Henry was being serious or if he was just trolling. There were many paradoxes in his statements, I think he was even called Prince Paradox once.

I definitely should have made a list with my favourite quotes, I would love to drop a quote in everyday conversations here and there :D I looked them up now to post some of my favorite quotes:
“Experience is merely the name men gave to their mistakes.”
“Those who find ugly meanings in beautiful things are corrupt without being charming. This is a fault. Those who find beautiful meanings in beautiful things are the cultivated."
“There is no such thing as a good influence. Because to influence a person is to give him one's own soul. ”
“Women, as some witty Frenchman once put it, inspire us with the desire to do masterpieces and always prevent us from carrying them out.”

10.01.2023 09:17:47

I am always stressed out by not knowing how to act like a normal person

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