my opinion on transitioning

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Xemocracy Arena
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459
Created
29.03.2024
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ButterfIy
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Reasonopia
06.04.2024 17:25:37
CarCrashBimbo

Dean Winchester wrote:
my mom helped me get top surgery lmao shes my biggest supporter i love her so much she was like well if it makes you happier and i am happier so thats that

I believe implants last about 10 years before you have to have them replaced or removed entirely.  So that is not really that...

06.04.2024 17:25:37
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06.04.2024 17:59:48
Iowa

Justicee wrote:
No they are not bruh! Where u get this info at
take a gander at the resources on this website including the articles section. that has up to date research about detransitioners and their experiences. the ~5 ideologically conservative detransitioners who are flown around the country and paid to testify in favor of gender affirming care bans are not representative of detransitioners as a whole. they are not a monolith.

06.04.2024 17:59:48
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Atheista
06.04.2024 19:03:40
SweetasNuts parody

Trans women are not women and trans men and not men. if they was they wouldnt be trans. teh only way trans are trying to get equal right is to stamp out womens.

06.04.2024 19:03:40
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Atheista
06.04.2024 20:12:31
Cunning Linguist

CarCrashBimbo wrote:
Dean Winchester wrote:
my mom helped me get top surgery lmao shes my biggest supporter i love her so much she was like well if it makes you happier and i am happier so thats that

I believe implants last about 10 years before you have to have them replaced or removed entirely.  So that is not really that...
Very true, top surgery requires less long-term maintenance & has less risk for complications than breast implants. But i just meant same in the "doing what makes you feel comfortable in your own body" way

(tho i believe the newer silicone implants last longer - those saline ones they used to use were a nightmare for potential complications)

unrelated, but lol @ the idea that Nutsparody cares abt womens rights. he be spamming the other threads daily abt how women need to be hairless sex objects

06.04.2024 20:12:31

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Antitheocra
06.04.2024 20:57:54
Bimbo Pimp

Iowa wrote:
i know so! oop, more data, here it comes

120k gender dysphoria diagnoses in minors in 2017-2021. during the same period, 4.8k puberty blocker prescriptions and 14.7k HRT prescriptions for treatment of gender dysphoria. in 2019-2021, there were about 780 mastectomies and 56 genital surgeries for the treatment of gender dysphoria. these are based on health insurance claims of about 40 million minors annually. the majority but not all of gender affirming care is accessed though health insurance so this is likely a slight undercount but its a very good estimate.

Is this...is this a flex? This alarming surge in number of kids seem normal to you? Not surprising that most are in California,New York and Washingtion. lol

Cunning Linguist wrote:

other fun facts, she (like many other women w early menopause) took the same hormones that trans women do. and i know 2 cis people who were prescribed testosterone for low T (& one of them is a woman, bc women need a little testosterone too!)
also i was on puberty blockers as a kid due to non trans reasons (precocious puberty) with no negative effects. all this stuff is already normal uncontroversial medicine for cis people.


Women having abnormalites and having to take hormones aren't fun facts.A woman losing her breasts to cancer...yeah totally the same thing as a non-binary person wanting tits or cutting them off . XD That's crazy! Your parents being ok with this isn't a "Gotcha!" moment. Some parents that have allowed their kids to transition were fear mongered into it by being told their offspring was going to off themselves. lol wtf

Everyone deserves respect, but we cannot deny the biological realities of our bodies. My experience is not simply about confusion or mental distress - it is a physical in the flesh experience, at times very painful and bloody, sometimes even life-threatening. It is also a beautiful experience that should not be reduced to something as dismissive as being called "cisgender." The galls!

The LGBTQ+your-mom community was a community that I supported fully in the past, now I feel like I’ve overdosed on rainbow flags and wonder often what the hell is happening.



06.04.2024 20:57:54
   
                                                              
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06.04.2024 21:22:08
ButterfIy

It’s almost as if detransitioners lose: their jobs for being “transphobic”, their trans friends for being “transphobic”, and the support of the tqia+ community for, you guessed it, being “transphobic” if they come forward with their stories. A very crazy concept, isn’t it?

And yes, of course it’s a flex for them to induct minors into their ranks. A haphazardly thrown together study linked by iona a few days ago literally observed children as young as 3 years old being considered “transgender” in their study. You really can’t NOT laugh.

06.04.2024 21:22:08
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Antitheocra
06.04.2024 21:46:47
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ButterFIy wrote: It’s almost as if detransitioners lose: their jobs for being “transphobic”, their trans friends for being “transphobic”, and the support of the lgbt community for, you guessed it, being “transphobic” if they come forward with their stories. A very crazy concept, isn’t it?

And yes, of course it’s a flex for them to induct minors into their ranks. A haphazardly thrown together study linked by iona a few days ago literally observed children as young as 3 years old being considered “transgender” in their study. You really can’t NOT laugh.


The rainbow community has been at war within itself because when the ideology gets questioned they are seen as traitors and not "true" gay/lesbian/trans individuals or labeled griefters. 
 As for little ones being "trans", some parents are grooming their children that way. Look at videos of parents coaxing their little ones to say they are the opposite gender. It is considered cool and progressive to have trans kids so attention seeking is at large.


06.04.2024 21:46:47
   
                                                              
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07.04.2024 01:12:09
Iowa

lot of claims being thrown around and i’m still the only one posting sources. isnt that interesting

07.04.2024 01:12:09
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Antitheocra
07.04.2024 02:20:41
Bimbo Pimp

Dear Iowa you ask and I deliver. <3

This is from the National Library of Medicine government website. Link for those that actually want to read the whole thing. I’ve copied sections of interests for those that are lazy or do not actually want to know that the grass is not as green as they say it is on the other side.   https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9886596/

providing psychosocial care replaced by GAT

There has also been a marked change in the treatment approach. The previous “common practice” of providing psychosocial care only to those under 18 or 21 years (Smith et al., 2001) has largely been replaced by the gender affirmative treatment approach (GAT), which for adolescents includes hormonal and surgical interventions (Coleman et al., 2022). However, as a recent review concluded, evidence on the appropriate management of youth with gender incongruence and dysphoria is inconclusive and has major knowledge gaps (Cass, 2022). Previous papers have discussed that the weaknesses of the studies investigating the efficacy of GAT for GD youth mean they are at high risk of bias and confounding and, thus, provide very low certainty evidence (Clayton, 2022a, b; Levine et al., 2022). To date, however, there has been little discussion of the inability of these studies to differentiate specific treatment effects from placebo effects.

Placebo Effect

The reader may wonder about this requirement of differentiating placebo effects from the specific effects of an intervention and ask: If the patient improves, does it really matter why? Yes, it does, particularly for treatments that have significant risk of adverse effects. There are also broader problems raised by relying on the placebo effect. Consider prescribing antibiotics for viral infections. The patient may experience clinical benefit through a placebo effect. However, not only may some patients experience serious adverse drug reactions, but the health of the whole population is imperiled by the problem of antibiotic resistance (Llor & Bjerrum, 2014). Furthermore, informed consent is an ethical pillar of modern medicine and requires clinician honesty and transparency. Clinicians deceptively utilizing placebo treatments do not meet this requirement (Barnhill, 2012; Kaldjian & Pilkington, 2021). A medical profession that does little to distinguish placebo effects from specific treatment effects risks becoming little different from pseudoscience and the quackery that dominated medicine of past times, with likely resulting decline in public trust and deterioration in patient outcomes (Benedetti, 2021a).

Low evidence for the use of GAT to treat GD

GAT can achieve some of the desired masculine or feminine appearance outcomes, but the main arguments used to support the use of these treatments in GD youth are that they improve short- and long-term mental health and quality-of-life outcomes. However, this claim is only underpinned by low-quality (mostly short-term, uncontrolled, observational) studies, which provide very low certainty evidence, complemented by expert opinion (Clayton, 2022a; Hembree et al., 2017; NICE, 2020a,b; Rosenthal, 2021). No randomized controlled trials (RCTs), including none using the previous treatment approach as a comparative, have been undertaken. This low-quality evidence for the efficacy of GAT is of particular concern given the potential risks associated with GAT.

 

Risks and concerns of Gender Affirming Medical and Surgical Treatments

Impaired fertility is a risk of cross-sex hormones

Cross-sex hormones are associated with cardiovascular health risks, such as thromboembolic, coronary artery, and cerebrovascular diseases

Increase risks of certain cancers

Puberty blockers can impact bone density, associated risk of osteoporosis and fractures

Studies done on animals indicate that puberty blockers may impact the brain development & long-term memory deficits

Risks to sexual function for capacity of arousal and orgasm, testosterone may lead to vaginal atrophy and dyspareunia and for males there is concern for there being lack of genital tissue development if blockers were given early on.

There is so much more!

The Dangers of an Exaggerated Suicide Narrative

Framing any non-affirming treatment approaches as harmful, ineffective, and unethical

Clinicians’ Media and Social Media Promotion of Gender Affirmative Treatment

etc click link if you actually care about kids

07.04.2024 02:20:41
   
                                                              
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07.04.2024 08:15:05
Iowa

i appreciate the source. but speaking of politics and money driving medical policy, the author of this study, alison clayton, is associated with the society for evidence-based gender medicine (SEGM), a small group of anti-trans activists and medical professionals who promote their own method, gender exploratory therapy (indistinguishable from conversion therapy) as a replacement for gender affirming care for anyone under 25. there are currently, to my knowledge, zero studies about the efficacy of gender exploratory therapy, but nevertheless its promoters gain financially and politically from casting doubts upon the evidence base for gender affirming care. in-depth explanation of the various connections within anti-gender affirming care lobbying here. so just keep that in mind with stuff like this ;]

i'm not gonna go through the whole paper simply because that's a massive time sink but i do have a few thoughts

providing psychosocial care replaced by GAT 
The previous “common practice” of providing psychosocial care only to those under 18 or 21 years (Smith et al., 2001) has largely been replaced by the gender affirmative treatment approach (GAT), which for adolescents includes hormonal and surgical interventions (Coleman et al., 2022). 
this sentence is very bizarre. the smith et all study was a follow-up study comparing the outcomes of treatment vs. non-treatment of "adolescent transsexuals". their findings state "Postoperatively the treated group was no longer gender-dysphoric and was psychologically and socially functioning quite well. Nobody expressed regrets concerning the decision to undergo sex reassignment. Without sex reassignment, the nontreated group showed some improvement, but they also showed a more dysfunctional psychological profile." their conclusions state "Careful diagnosis and strict criteria are necessary and sufficient to justify hormone treatment in adolescent transsexuals." so obviously psychosocial care only wasn't always provided to those under 18 or 21 because her own source literally states that this wasn't the case, and those that received medical treatment had better outcomes than those who only received psychosocial care? clayton then cites the WPATH standards of care version 8, which exhaustively layout a process for careful diagnosis of gender dysphoria and strict criteria for treatment in minors, including psychosocial care, but uses this to support her claim that psychosocial care has been replaced by GAT. like what?

Placebo Effect

at no point in this entire article does she actually provide evidence for the notion that gender affirming care has a placebo effect on gender dysphoria, she just argues that it could, and that that's bad. but one fact that she chooses to leave out entirely is that it is literally impossible to demonstrate a placebo effect for GAC because the changes are physical and visibly noticeable, which is the point. you can not have a placebo effect or placebo-based trial when it becomes clear right away who is receiving the placebo and who is receiving the treatment, which is yet another reason why randomized control trials are virtually impossible for GAC, alongside the ethical concerns i explained earlier. the placebo effect is most noticeable and documented in psychiatric treatment where treatment involves altering brain chemistry, and you don't know if your brain chemistry is actually being altered, all you know is you're taking a pill and the pill is supposed to make you feel better. she goes over this fact in the article but fails to explain how a treatment that is necessarily physical/visual can also constitute a placebo effect.

Low evidence for the use of GAT to treat GD

as i've said multiple times before, not having RCTs and relying primarily on observational studies and cohort studies is not really uncommon for medicine but it is presented as if it is morally outrageous and a massive medical scandal.

"In fact, the record shows that less than 15 percent of medical treatments are supported by “high-quality evidence,” or in other words that 85 percent of evidence that guides clinical care, across all areas of medicine, would be classified as “low-quality” under the scale used by Defendants’ [the Defendants being the state of georgia] experts. [...] According to the GRADE Working Group, high-quality evidence is derived from randomized controlled trials and low-quality evidence is derived from observational study designs. [...] In this respect, then, the fact that only “low-quality” evidence is available to support hormone therapy reveals little in itself. The Endocrine Society has produced clinical recommendations based on “low quality” or “very low quality” evidence in several areas, and such evidence supports other treatments that are uncontroversial. For example, the Endocrine Society guidelines regarding treatment of “various aspects of the care of primary adrenal insufficiency, central hypopituitarism, pheochromocytoma and paragangliomia,” are supported by “low-quality” or “very low-quality” evidence, and the same grade of evidence supports treatments like the use of steroids to treat a child with croup and the use of puberty blockers in female cancer patients to preserve fertility while they undergo chemotherapy."
"Dr. Hruz suggested that the Court should disregard the body of research showing benefits of gender-affirming medical care for adolescents because it is low-quality research, and the studies have methodological limitations such as lack of a control group or cross-sectional design. The Court declines to do that. The Court finds that the quality of the evidence supporting gender-affirming medical interventions for adolescents with gender dysphoria is comparable to the quality of evidence supporting many other medical treatments minors and their families may pursue. And while the Court recognizes that the studies on gender-affirming medical care for adolescents, like studies in all areas of medical research, have strengths and weaknesses, it does not credit Dr. Hruz’s assessment that the entire body of research is, therefore, meaningless. The body of research, taken as a whole, shows these treatments provide significant benefits to adolescents with gender dysphoria."
-- from the legal findings in the court decisions to overturn the GAC bans in georgia and arkansas.

it also bears repeating that, while the evidence for GAC may be low-quality in this scale, the evidence to alternative treatments for gender dysphoria has significantly less evidence. previous common practices for GD treatment were not, as this article implies, well-researched and well-evidenced practices that were suddenly replaced by experimental procedures with no evidence. the majority of research about GAC has come out within the last 20 years.

Risks and concerns of Gender Affirming Medical and Surgical Treatments 
all of this is well-documented and this information is available in literally every single refill of my testosterone prescription i get. it also is not placed within context. for example:
- "Cross-sex hormones are associated with cardiovascular health risks, such as thromboembolic, coronary artery, and cerebrovascular diseases" leaves out that trans people have higher risk of heart attack and stroke regardless of whether they take hormone therapy or not, so these health risks are likely partially due to minority stress, and that risk varies with the hormone (estrogen vs. testosterone) and the administration method (transdermal vs. oral). some of these risks are also just due to the hormone itself regardless of who is taking it (e.g. testosterone increases cholesterol, as well as hemoglobin and thus chances for blood clots)
- "Increase risks of certain cancers" leaves out that this is true for any hormonal treatment, not just cross-sex hormones, because sex hormones drive cell division.  it also fails to mention that many cancer risks for cis people taking HRT do not exist for trans people. for example, estrogen increases the risk of cervical cancer, but trans women do not have cervixes. additionally, cross-sex hormones also significantly decrease the risks for certain cancers. androgen blockers significantly decrease the risk of prostate cancer, and testosterone causes the endometrium to atrophy which reduces the risk of endometrial cancer.
- "Studies done on animals indicate that puberty blockers may impact the brain development & long-term memory deficits" leaves out that other studies on animals showed no effects at all or only effects on sex-typical behavior
- "Risks to sexual function for capacity of arousal and orgasm, testosterone may lead to vaginal atrophy and dyspareunia and for males there is concern for there being lack of genital tissue development if blockers were given early on." leaves out that rates of sexual dysfunction in trans women are similar to that of cis women (10-40%), vaginal atrophy and dyspareunia in trans men can be effectively managed using physical therapy and/or topical estrogen cream, and that there are methods of sex reassignment surgery for trans women who took puberty blockers. this article mentions the success of those procedures.
and so on.

The Dangers of an Exaggerated Suicide Narrative
claims of exaggeration are mostly based on people referring to GAC as "life-saving" and there supposedly not being enough evidence to back up the fact, as well as the fact that youth trans suicide is "rare". it is rare because suicide is rare. it is still markedly higher than the general population and overall risk for suicidal behavior is even higher. the article acknowledges that any elevated risk of suicide is a problem, but then goes on to condemn "excessive" focus on "exaggerated" suicide risk. and to that i ask, when there are consistent reports of 40-50% past suicide attempts, and 80-90% past suicidal ideation, what would be an appropriate level of focus?

Framing any non-affirming treatment approaches as harmful, ineffective, and unethical
clayton claims "It is important to note that psychotherapeutic approaches for this group of patients are also based on limited evidence" which is a laughable way to word it. gender-exploratory therapy (which she recommends, surprise surprise) has zero studies. there are only a total of 15 studies on using psychotherapy alone for treatment of gender dysphoria. the majority of them are at least 40 years old, only 4 of them have sample sizes of more than 20, and all of them use outdated diagnostic criteria that lumped gender-nonconforming people with trans people. "success" at resolving gender dysphoria was very inconsistent. studies overview is here. keep in mind that this overview was put together by an anti-trans advocacy group and it was still the best they could come up with. but this is deliberate and ideologically motivated framing; if you say that GAC has limited evidence, and then say that alternative approaches also have limited evidence, it seems like a level playing field when that could not be farther from the case. people also do this with climate change.

Clinicians’ Media and Social Media Promotion of Gender Affirmative Treatment
this section is primarily supported by the idea that gender dysphoria is a social contagion, a phenomenon termed rapid onset gender dysphoria (ROGD). ROGD as a concept was based on a questionnaire filled out by parents of gender dysphoric children who were recruited from gender-critical/transphobic online communities who claimed that their children's dysphoria was because of the internet. the theory has been condemned by most major medical organizations and the journal that published the article retracted it and apologized. the majority of trans children begin questioning their gender 2+ years before they tell someone, let alone seek treatment. there is literally no evidence for the social contagion theory.

anyway, thanks for the source! this type of engagement and discourse is good!

07.04.2024 08:15:05
✖ he/him pronouns ✖ chris/sweetasnuts doesnt care about this game

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