swinging my xenis like a windmill
xesus has risen
my opinion on transitioning
FREE PALESTINE
as a certified juggalo i can confirm this ^ is a miracle
stream "chekhov's guns" by mclusky
ButterfIy wrote:
i respect that many points can be truly motivated by ethics, when i referred to "the argument" i was moreso referring to the entire trans debate online.
not knowing every long term effect should definitely be part of the consideration, but is just not the only thing that's relevant when you look at the real world situations these people are in with their bodies. of course, when you look at it solely medically, we all know the healthiest thing for your body alone would be NOT taking any drugs, and especially not doing a sexchange. but that's too 2d.
i understand regular hormone treatments and psych treatments have been studied for way longer and are less "invasive" than hormone therapy, so the comparison might not be entirely fair, but i think my argument still stands that you never really know which effects you're going to get 100% and there are people under the age of consent who still need and take these drugs.
when you look at the evidence we do have, gnrh agonists do seem pretty harmless "all things considered" though. and most people would suggest those to minors over any other treatments for that reason. (but you're the one that chose medicine and i'm the one that chose medical marijuana, so maybe you saw studies that have led to irreversible and/or major health issues in regular cases?)
as a true centrist (and i know saying this won't make me popular on here), i am just as annoyed by the they/them annoying tumblr bitches trying to be special who are 99% of the time just cis girls, and even more shocked when people influenced by that same psychology end up convicing themselves they need real hormone therapy or even surgery. but i also see and have empathy for actual trans people, which absolutely exist and are absolutely still gonna suffer.
it's very complex because the people we're talking about here are still young and the culture right now is full of extreme influences and extreme misinformation, but i think the key is patient education and very thorough assessments - not ruling out the option of promising early therapies all together.
because, and evidence will speak for this as well, but we can just think logically and on a human level here - therapy before puberty has led to better quality of life for most than after.
remember in the case of trans people specifically, you're basically using medicine when you really, really need magic instead.
edit: i swear i was smoking before sending this and the thread wasn't like this before lmao
I’m not claiming to know everything, and if you read the subtext of what I was saying I’m literally saying the opposite: that we do not know the long-term impact of certain indicated therapies for gender dysphoria.
I also think the comparison between depression and this case to be entirely disingenuous. It’s true that someone undertaking pharmacotherapy whilst underage may not be fully aware of the implications/side effect of the drug. However, the significance and prevalence of the side effects of a TCA, for example, are nowhere near as drastic as therapy intended to treat “gender dysphoria” - a now nebulous term that anyone who doesn’t like pink or play with dolls can get a diagnosis for. The same goes for a girl who hasn’t had breast bud development by 14 and requires oestrogen - it is not an effective comparison. The treatments MAY work effectively in the RIGHT candidate, but the selection criteria for said candidate is so lax that my dog can go and get top surgery within the week.
It is abundantly apparent that these treatments are in their infancy, yet they are being doled out as though they are entirely safe. Even in instances where people are told by HCPs that there are side effects, who cares when the pervasive narrative online is that these treatments are a rite of passage and are, in fact, evidence-based in efficacy and safety. People now compare getting your tits done at 18 to a young teenager taking HRT. The comparisons are ridiculous.
It’s also extremely dumb to say the argument isn’t motivated by medical ethics. The ENTIRE conversation we are having here hinges upon it. If you think I don’t care about the children being sold pipe dreams, I couldn’t give less of a shit personally, but it’s definitely audacious to insinuate that other people don’t just because of you own opinions. I do agree with some of your post, however, so I appreciate the partially-earnest dialogue.
i respect that many points can be truly motivated by ethics, when i referred to "the argument" i was moreso referring to the entire trans debate online.
not knowing every long term effect should definitely be part of the consideration, but is just not the only thing that's relevant when you look at the real world situations these people are in with their bodies. of course, when you look at it solely medically, we all know the healthiest thing for your body alone would be NOT taking any drugs, and especially not doing a sexchange. but that's too 2d.
i understand regular hormone treatments and psych treatments have been studied for way longer and are less "invasive" than hormone therapy, so the comparison might not be entirely fair, but i think my argument still stands that you never really know which effects you're going to get 100% and there are people under the age of consent who still need and take these drugs.
when you look at the evidence we do have, gnrh agonists do seem pretty harmless "all things considered" though. and most people would suggest those to minors over any other treatments for that reason. (but you're the one that chose medicine and i'm the one that chose medical marijuana, so maybe you saw studies that have led to irreversible and/or major health issues in regular cases?)
as a true centrist (and i know saying this won't make me popular on here), i am just as annoyed by the they/them annoying tumblr bitches trying to be special who are 99% of the time just cis girls, and even more shocked when people influenced by that same psychology end up convicing themselves they need real hormone therapy or even surgery. but i also see and have empathy for actual trans people, which absolutely exist and are absolutely still gonna suffer.
it's very complex because the people we're talking about here are still young and the culture right now is full of extreme influences and extreme misinformation, but i think the key is patient education and very thorough assessments - not ruling out the option of promising early therapies all together.
because, and evidence will speak for this as well, but we can just think logically and on a human level here - therapy before puberty has led to better quality of life for most than after.
remember in the case of trans people specifically, you're basically using medicine when you really, really need magic instead.
edit: i swear i was smoking before sending this and the thread wasn't like this before lmao
they/them annoying tumblr bitches rise up!!!!!!!!!
hello i'm back with info
i'm not falling for bait, i'm presenting facts so other people
viewing might change their minds. someone who says things like "I’m even
more sorry that the doctor who shoved puberty blockers and
testosterone down your cunt in the hopes of sprouting a cock was allowed
to practice medicine on a child without their license being revoked."
in reference to a 14 year old doesnt actually care about the health of
children, i dont care about the opinions of a pathological liar anyway.
point 1: consent
if
you are going to argue that valid and reasonable consent can not be
given for transitioning then you must also apply that to the rest of
pediatric medicine. transitioning is not the only medical treatment that
has implications for fertility and development, far from it. treatment
for cancer, blood disorders, and endocrine disorders, to name a few, can
impact fertility, and HIV medication and psychiatric drugs can impact
cognitive development. "A 13 year old is unlikely to understand the
significance of the changes
made to their body and their wants and desires at 13 are likely to not
align with their desires at 30" could apply to any number of procedures
and treatments. that is a potential cost that must be weighed in any
pediatric care. "Do we then just assume the child’s parents are prophets
who can read the
stars and shit out the future onto a canvas? Again, no. Who are the
patient’s parents to make a decision of this magnitude when the margin
for error is this enormous?" could as well.
adolescents
do in fact have the capacity to make meaningful decisions, according to
developmental psychology. the argument that they don't is the same
argument used to say that minors should not be allowed to access
contraceptives or abortion. should young girls not be able to get
abortions?
there are standards and procedures for evaluating the decision making capacity of a minor. here is
one used in a variety of contexts, including cancer treatment,
bariatric surgery, vaccination, and clinical trials. one of the
recommendations in the WPATH standards of care for administering
gender-affirming care to minors is the assessment of decision-making
capacity using this framework. if the evaluation comes to the conclusion
that the minor can not reasonably give consent, then treatment does not
proceed. if there are other factors that alter the minor's decision
making capacity, such as an unmanaged psychological disorder, then
treatment does not proceed. if it does, that is on account of the
doctor's malpractice, and there are legal avenues for recourse.
point 2: puberty blockers
puberty
blockers do affect bone development because sex hormones contribute to
the accumulation of bone mineral density. this is well-known. if a minor
takes puberty blockers and then stops them without transitioning, BMD
will normalize within a couple of years (source).
in use in transitioning, BMD will increase with the addition of
hormones but may not return to the normal range for transfeminine
people. low BMD can be offset with things like calcium supplementation
and lifestyle changes. there is generally little issue for
transmasculine people. however, it has been found that both
transfeminine minors and adults have lower than average BMD before any
medical intervention takes place, which may be due to lower than average
participation in physical activity such as sports. effects on BMD also
vary with how long puberty blockers are administered, so it is already
generally not recommended to take them for more than 1 or 2 years. keep
in mind that children who take puberty blockers for other disorders such
as precocious puberty and endometriosis can take them for much longer
than this period. here is an in depth review of transitioning and bone health.
the
effect of puberty blockers on cognitive development is pure
speculation. there are a handful of studies of the effects of gnrh
agonists on human cognitive development. the majority of studies are on
animals and the majority of the effects are altered sex-specific
behaviors. there's little observed affect on what we can extrapolate to
represent cognition. in two studies on macaque monkeys, no adverse
effects were identified. for human studies, most of them base their
results on IQ points, which is a poor measure of overall cognitive function or aptitude.
one
thing you completely neglect to mention is that untreated gender
dysphoria can have a significant effect on cognitive development.
according to the most recent literature review on puberty blockers:
Even without a psychiatric comorbidity, the psychosocial stresses associated with living with gender dysphoria as a young person can be very significant and would be expected to have a substantial impact on cognitive reserve. This would be consistent with the findings of Haraldsen who in a conference presentation reported highly significant differences between gender identity disorder patients and controls on measures of verbal and executive function with significantly atrophic hippocampal and cerebellum tissue prior to any treatment with puberty-blocking agents. A recent study from Turkey reported significantly worse performance on tests of response inhibition and verbal fluency in 22 adolescents with gender dysphoria compared to controls, with no group differences in set shifting. None of the patients in the gender dysphoria group had taken gender-affirming treatment at the time of the assessment, but levels of comorbid psychiatric disturbance were high with 72.7% having at least one psychiatric diagnosis. This is consistent with earlier findings from the same group indicating more disturbed behaviour related to executive function and social impairment in children with gender dysphoria compared to controls.
the NHS' literature review of puberty blockers suffered from a litany of problems, including cherry-picking research and misreporting the research it did use. an in-depth critical review can be found here. also considering the current state of the NHS in general i wouldn't use their decision-making as the golden standard, lol.
point 3: persistence of gender dysphoria
the
common talking point that ~80% of trans youth turn out to just be gay
is based on bunk science from a bygone era. it is primary based on the
research of two people, ken zucker and thomas steensma. all of their
research was performed during a time when gender dysphoria did not exist
as a diagnosis and they instead used the diagnostic criteria of gender
identity disorder, which did not require insistent identification as the opposite gender
or discomfort with one's own sexual anatomy. it required
gender-nonconforming behavior and a discomfort with natal gender roles.
that is all.
ken
zucker was a conversion therapy advocate who saw both transgender
identity and the homosexual "lifestyle" as socially unacceptable.
according to parents of patients he discouraged cross-gender behavior
and play, told parents to prevent their children from having opposite
gender friends, asked intrusive questions about sexual orientation to
his minor patients, and took photographs of minor patients without their
consent. his primary research
used the gender identity disorder diagnostic criteria, but 40% of the
sample group were subthreshold for GID, meaning they were only
incidentally gender-nonconforming but their parents brought them for
"treatment" anyway. his "gender clinic" was a place where parents
brought their effeminate sons to be "fixed" and it was shut down in 2015
due to an anti-conversion therapy law.
thomas steensma also
used the GID diagnostic criteria for his research but also counted any
patient lost to followup as having desisted, further inflating the
numbers.
no population survey nor research
study using the up to date gender dysphoria diagnostic criteria has ever
produced a figure even remotely close to the figures produced by
GID-based studies. in a longitudinal study of prepubescent trans youth, 97.5% retained a trans identity 5 years later. in the most recent study
on the subject with almost no loss to followup, among 552 closed
referrals, 29 were closed due to reidentification with birth sex. all
but two of these happened during the diagnostic/evaluation phase. of the
patients who began medical treatment, 1% of them changed their minds. a
handful of referrals were closed due to the patient moving out of
state, and the majority were closed because the patient reached
adulthood. reported regret after transitioning for adults is also consistently within the range of 1-3%. if literally any other medical treatment had this level of success it would be considered a miracle.
there's also the simple fact that opponents to trans care have been predicting a "wave" of detransitioners for like 15 years. the affirmative approach (the 'dutch protocol' as it is referred to) became the standard in 2012. the initial patients treated with that protocol are now adults. and yet there's still the same, what, 2? 3? detransitioners getting paid to testify against gender-affirming care around the country. an australian documentary on detransition couldnt find enough detransitioners so they had to fly in ones from america for interviews. in their legal case, the state of florida couldn't find a single detransitioner in their entire state who wanted to testify for them. if 80% of trans kids change their mind, where the fuck are they? do they all disappear?
point 4: "female physiology"
i didn't say that HRT will make you grow a vagina you fucking moron, i said that estrogen HRT will reformat the body's structure and performance to be within normal range of height-matched cis females. all prior findings to the contrary do not control for height.
also, here's
an example of estrogen HRT widening the pelvic floor, julie doe. the
partially mummified remains of a woman were found and she was thought to
be cisgender for over 25 years until dna testing showed a y chromosome.
this was in part because she had pitting in her pelvic bone that is
usually the result of childbirth but was in fact because of prolonged
use of estrogen. the more you know!
if anyone has more questions or concerns about gender-affirming care i am happy to answer them.
Yawn. The girl who cried wolf is back to write transvestite propaganda manifestos after threatening that she was gonna leave the website for the billionth time.
“Then two years ago, I became a public figure representing domestic
abuse, and I felt the full force of our culture’s wrath for women who
speak out.” -Amber Heard
i never said i was leaving i'm here for goofs and gaffes until i'm publicly executed. im sorry that paragraphs scare you :[
They don't scare me, they bore me to tears when it's transsexual propaganda. Show us your mutilated genitals instead, that would entertain everyone here.
“Then two years ago, I became a public figure representing domestic
abuse, and I felt the full force of our culture’s wrath for women who
speak out.” -Amber Heard
your desperation for some nudes is so sad............ petition to create bumble and tinder accs for buttlice
AuntieLice wrote:
Mr. Snow, what's your fave Iona Reddit post? I can't decide between her complaining about her yellow vaginal discharge, some straight guy she found on a dating app choking her till she passed out or her telling children to either go to New Mexico to get cross-sex hormones or doing a DIY project by getting them from the black market.My god the obsession you have with him is so intense you should just ask him out already like holy shit
Mr. Theodora accusing someone of being homophobic over not supporting transvestites? What an insane take, get some professional help.
Ximboland stats
-
Population: 323200
Prime Ximbo: tibby
Treasury (USD): $63.73
Next Prime Ximbo election: 01.11.2025
Next State Minister elections: 15.12.2025
State in Charge: Atheista
Social media: | |
-
Best State Warriors this month:
nullplayer
- 2592261 points
Legal Alien - lvl 44
mbbybbby
- 555319 points
State Minister - lvl 274
CarCrashBimbo
- 343302 points
Citizen - lvl 59
Susan Slutzky
- 275409 points
Senator - lvl 264
Eunyce
- 272687 points
Minister of Fashion - lvl 260
-
Sexiest this week:
Mermaidmare
- 1662 points
Citizen - lvl 49
lvcifersSxxd0ll
- 1496 points
Citizen - lvl 47
Sandi Lut
- 1407 points
State Minister - lvl 289
Chiiwi
- 1042 points
Senator - lvl 58
forgottensol
- 930 points
Citizen - lvl 63
-
Most reputable this week:
Lyah
- 520 points
Citizen - lvl 67
Silvanight
- 288 points
Citizen - lvl 16
kITTYStARZ921986
- 252 points
Senator - lvl 62
PinkGlitterLips
- 229 points
Senator - lvl 34
Chiiwi
- 225 points
Senator - lvl 58
-
Best fighters this week:
PinkGlitterLips
- 30 points
Senator - lvl 34
drmbunny
- 9 points
Citizen - lvl 23
lexi_loo
- 8 points
Citizen - lvl 51
XxGrungeDadxX
- 4 points
Citizen - lvl 24
Kyele
- 4 points
Citizen - lvl 198
-
Best debaters this week:
AltAcc
- 18 points
Legal Alien - lvl 47
kITTYStARZ921986
- 15 points
Senator - lvl 62
Lyah
- 12 points
Citizen - lvl 67
Mermaidmare
- 11 points
Citizen - lvl 49
GardenBaby
- 11 points
Citizen - lvl 38
