Ximboland democracy failures and how to address it

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Category
Announcements from Boob Palace

Posts
623

Created
01.12.2023

Author
Miss Bimbo

LillyAnn

Level 240
Status: Senator
Sex Appeal: 11892210
Reputation: 635868
Posts: 6346

24.12.2023 00:28:16
LillyAnn

Gemima1984 wrote:

I know you guys are pissed off but I think staying civil and just answering the genuine and valid questions people have is probably the best way to resolve the matter.

Gemima1984 wrote:
Sorry, so Iowa gets banned because of an incident where somebody uses a profile picture of Lilly Ann on reddit but butterfly can do the exact same thing and nobody gives a shit?

Can somebody please explain why there are these double standards? That doesn't sit right with me at all?
Just want an explanation on the inconsistency of punishment with regards to rule breaking. As an outsider it's kind of wild to me so any rationale behind that would be helpful. Thank you,

Ok. There you go.

1. Iowa account was never banned.

2. Iowa's first account, Juggalo was banned in 2021 (not sure which month exactly but def first half of the year)

3. Reddit incident started 2022 spring/summer

4. Iowa acc. was made in 2021 in December

5. My pic on reddit - summer 2022 (during my 1st PB term)

Juggalo acc. certainly wasn't banned because someone used my pic on subreddit, that account was banned over a year before that, during Toki's 2nd term.

Reddit appeared sometime after Cowboys gang incident (Dye's second term, 2022)

Iowa acc. was made during Dye's 1st term (2021)

Based on this timeline, what is your conclusion? Did I ban Iowa because of my photo on his sub?

First of all, is Iowa banned actually? As far as I can see his account is alive and posts in forum.

24.12.2023 00:28:16

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Gemima1984

Level 111
Status: Citizen
Sex Appeal: 1084790
Reputation: 60107
Posts: 1984

24.12.2023 00:41:53
Gemima1984

Hi Lilly Ann, thanks for answering. So in particular the bit where I'm seeing the huge discrepancy is below. With regards to when I say Iowa, I mean Iowa's old account. I am referring to the person behind the account as one individual because it is one person. You banned their old account for the below rationale. Meanwhile whilst I've been here I've seen AuntieLice and Butterfly do the same things? Troll, bait, make fun of people's contest entries, misgender, cause a toxic environment and bully others. Why have they not been banned alongside the Juggalo Rights account if those are the rules? That's inconsistent.

Gemima1984 wrote:

I think the amount of responsibility put on individuals to run the website is unfair. I think Lilly Ann was put in a stressful situation and as a result of feeling targeted, acted in a way which was disproportionate and unfair on Iowa. I'm sorry to criticise, especially when I haven't experienced just how much work running the site is. I can imagine it is frustrating running everything and having people acting in bad faith.

Banning Iowa may have been the correct thing to do, if he ran the subreddit, was actively participating over here and responsible for a community who was then going on to doxx people, I think banning would potentially be justified. Iowa, I recognise you held strong that doxxing was unacceptable but as the person running the subreddit, you also take some of the responsibility for the culture. However, the way Iowa has been spoken to, handled and banned is frankly unacceptable.

I also echo bxdcherri's thoughts, and I am concerned by the things MarrQ has said to players. We need a coder, but at the very least his interaction with players could have been reduced to prevent it happening again. I am thankful for his work but why is an unelected person telling players to go fuck themselves, dropping slurs, threatening them? It's bizarre.

Now my main reason for commenting is with regards to this excerpt from Lilly Ann below
"Your bullying other players over stuff like PBFC suggestion, accidental misgendering, baiting players just to make them guilty so you can report them and expected THEM to be punished? You want me to be honest - I GOT SICK OF THAT! I WANTED TO FORGET IT NOT TO READ IT OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN FOR MONTHS AND YEARS. You are just toxic! If you have your own issues please take care of yourself and in a proper way, don't spill your frustration here. This game is supposed to be a fan outlet, no one here is supposed to be your punching bag for your own private frustration. I still don't get what is not clear to you."

Rules need to be consistently applied, communicated effectively and fair. Iowa's suggestion for rules and a system for banning are pretty standard across websites with communities and are pretty fair and not unreasonable. If Iowa was banned for the above reasons, can you please explain why players who also do all the exact same things are free to continue to do so all over the forums with no repercussions? You can't have it both ways. You either have free speech and users block problematic users or you fairly ban people consistently based on established rules. Do you have a rationale for allowing these players to continue to stir shit, post harmful content, harass people and make the website generally unpleasant for most of us?

For what it's worth, I am still against the majority of Chris' recommended changes. I think the banning of alts is fair. I think blecky does a good job and I don't think Chris taking over will remedy any of the issues, only allow them to rot further. The website needs established rules, a fair system and some kind of appeals process for people like Iowa. But if this is the bullshit he's been having shoved in his inbox, is it any wonder he's bulldozed in this way?

Everybody here is an adult. Everybody needs to put their petty feuds down and think about things rationally. If judgement is skewed by emotion then let the courts or others take the lead.

24.12.2023 00:41:53

ButterfIy

Level 60
Status: Citizen
Sex Appeal: 164626
Reputation: 47188
Posts: 2297

24.12.2023 00:47:59
ButterfIy

She didn’t even ban Juggalo Rights so what are you smoking?

24.12.2023 00:47:59

I am pro-Israel, DNI if pro-Palestine, thank you!

LillyAnn

Level 240
Status: Senator
Sex Appeal: 11892210
Reputation: 635868
Posts: 6346

24.12.2023 01:22:17
LillyAnn

Gemima1984 wrote:

Hi Lilly Ann, thanks for answering. So in particular the bit where I'm seeing the huge discrepancy is below. With regards to when I say Iowa, I mean Iowa's old account. I am referring to the person behind the account as one individual because it is one person. You banned their old account for the below rationale. Meanwhile whilst I've been here I've seen AuntieLice and Butterfly do the same things? Troll, bait, make fun of people's contest entries, misgender, cause a toxic environment and bully others. Why have they not been banned alongside the Juggalo Rights account if those are the rules? That's inconsistent.

How possibly I could banned Juggalo acc. if I was not PB back then? Can you explain that to me?

24.12.2023 01:22:17

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princesspixie

Level 270
Status: Citizen
Sex Appeal: 20818070
Reputation: 228054
Posts: 3160

24.12.2023 01:42:08
princesspixie

I don't know why we are misunderstanding the question being asked here. It almost feels deliberate. Iowa/Juggalo Rights aside, I think it's clear that what we're asking is why butterfly and auntielice get to regularly harass the rest of the site without real consequence. We would like to know who or what protects them, despite their intentional and repeated harassment. They drive players away and some us can't understand why they are valued so much more than we are, that they are able to treat others horribly for so long. Why do reports of their harassment go ignored? I would appreciate a straight forward answer rather than all of this beating around the bush--and I need that answer from someone other than the trolls in question, though I'm sure I'll be hearing from them as well.

24.12.2023 01:42:08

AuntieLice

Level 60
Status: Citizen
Sex Appeal: 168715
Reputation: 78680
Posts: 2454

24.12.2023 01:48:05
AuntieLice

1) who the hell are you now?
2) this bullshit again? Multiple other members, including plenty of alts, already said the same crap that you are saying right now, so what are you hoping to accomplish? Not only can you not name a single person who stopped playing cause of us, but the website owner straight up said that it doesn't matter cause if someone is sensitive enough to leave cause their feelings got hurt on the forum, they aren't fit to do anything useful on this website. Please learn how to read, doll!

24.12.2023 01:48:05

“Then two years ago, I became a public figure representing domestic abuse, and I felt the full force of our culture’s wrath for women who speak out.” -Amber Heard

LillyAnn

Level 240
Status: Senator
Sex Appeal: 11892210
Reputation: 635868
Posts: 6346

24.12.2023 03:32:46
LillyAnn

princesspixie wrote:

I don't know why we are misunderstanding the question being asked here. It almost feels deliberate. Iowa/Juggalo Rights aside, I think it's clear that what we're asking is why butterfly and auntielice get to regularly harass the rest of the site without real consequence. We would like to know who or what protects them, despite their intentional and repeated harassment. They drive players away and some us can't understand why they are valued so much more than we are, that they are able to treat others horribly for so long. Why do reports of their harassment go ignored? I would appreciate a straight forward answer rather than all of this beating around the bush--and I need that answer from someone other than the trolls in question, though I'm sure I'll be hearing from them as well.

Alright, I know what you all want to see all the time, so get ready, here comes some juicy stuff. Please don't forget to add another screenshot in your collection.

But before that let's clear some things up. Butterfly and AuntieLice were jailed and forum banned many times. There were a couple of month long jails for them. Yes, that's right, even during my terms they used to get jailed and forum banned repeatedly. While many of you were talking that I was protecting them because we are friends or because they licked my a** I personally hit the button many times. So 'my friends' were jailed and forum banned way more often that Iowa or any of you who obviously are not my friends per your own choice.

As a matter of fact I tried to ban them. You don't have to believe me, I don't really care. Looks like the game likes them and they didn't get banned.

It's quite interesting to see the same question popping up over and over again. Past and current SMs know about the issue. Since rumors travel fast from PH many of you know that already, unless some SMs are not that transparent as they like to appear in front of you.

It's a hard pill to swallow for many of you but no matter who PB is now or was before Blecky, they wouldn't be able to do that. Next PB won't be able to do it either. So if some of SMs who wants to run for PB in February promise you they will ban them, know that it's LIE. They know already they won't be able.

If you speak of reports made on posts in this thread - Wasn't this made to be a free speech? No one has been censored. If you prefer cleaning this thread than, no problem, FP can do it. But don't complain later that evidence has been destroyed.

Don't forget to screenshot, share it and thumb down! Happy holidays! <3

24.12.2023 03:32:46

Welcome new bimbos & himbos ❣

I identify as transparent, pronounces who/where
(don't take this seriously, because if you do it's your own fault)

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Heydi

Level 52
Status: Citizen
Sex Appeal: 111828
Reputation: 65309
Posts: 2734

24.12.2023 03:50:24
Heydi

I did not want to get involved in this and I dislike how far we have strayed from the original topic. But I would like to make a short comment on this.

And despite any of my personal beliefs I want to speak in a way that I guess is like less accusatory(?) whatever the right word is.

I do not have evidence for this screen shot as I think the channel where it happened was removed. But I have witnessed Lillyann discuss with others having to punish and Jail AuntieLice and Buttfiy due to their harassing behaviour.

I can probably say, most of us feel that AuntieLice and Butterfiy are underpunished, as it seems they are rarely jailed but always cause tension.

But there is a clear reason for this outside of potential bias when we focus on HOW they cause tension. Their style is more passive aggressive, you can even scroll back through this thread to see examples. The two of them don't come out swinging calling names, they just do things that could be seen as an accident. Yet with the context most of us assume the intention is to harm.

So whether or not there is bias from admins, it is hard for admins to just ban them, because solid evidence that looks like true intended harassment in context is hard to find.

Like what I am trying to say is, if you wanted to say "bullying and harassment" you can't just link one post of them saying something transphobic. You would have to scroll through AuntieLice and Butterfiys whole post history and say their many claimed identities/personas were intended to mock people. That every comment that made people feel bad was intentional.

It is hard to find evidence of them bullying people off the site, I am not sure if they have. I do remember someone getting harassed by them, but they were banned for being a minor at the time, they were then allowed to come back later as an adult.

There is more I could say on how the structure of the site plays into this, along with other things, but would it really help? Is it even worse fixing if it may take away the charm?

I know there are many people who actual don't care about the political aspect for the site, but I for one do enjoy it.

24.12.2023 03:50:24

she/they learn mandarin with me ^v^ or if you prefer vtubers :3
like peoples forum posts and comments.
comment more than you receive and ill make sure to comment on your profile!

Muffy Mynxxx

Level 120
Status: Citizen
Sex Appeal: 1369808
Reputation: 31664
Posts: 699

24.12.2023 06:06:49
Muffy Mynxxx

LillyAnn wrote:

princesspixie wrote:
I don't know why […]
Alright, I know what […]

I’d just like to say that although this isn’t the answer I’d like to hear and it’s not a totally complete answer, I really appreciate the transparency here and the fact that it’s finally getting addressed in some way. So that we can all stop pretending like it’s not a known problem that only a select few want taken care of. I think if we can at least all agree on that then we are one step closer to somewhat settling things and being on decent terms

24.12.2023 06:06:49

made using

ButterfIy

Level 60
Status: Citizen
Sex Appeal: 164626
Reputation: 47188
Posts: 2297

24.12.2023 07:12:27
ButterfIy

Unfortunately, Muffin Man, you indeed are a select few—though definitely not a selection anyone sane takes seriously. The amount of messages I’ve gotten from other users who refuse to use the Forum because of the gender monopoly and identity twister you all enjoy playing would definitely startle you (which admittedly doesn’t take much). Interestingly enough, most of those were users who actually paid for things on this site and actively helped keep it afloat, much like myself. I suppose you could say that your collective nonsense and predilection for imploding when things don’t go your way is keeping those who effectively pay for the site to be run away. Just some food for thought, since I know how much you’d appreciate that!

Also, what a surprise: Heydi’s first post in here is a long-winded, whiny essay and she has her pronouns in the first line of her bio. I’m sensing a pattern here, and it definitely isn’t healthy.

24.12.2023 07:12:27

I am pro-Israel, DNI if pro-Palestine, thank you!

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